Posts by King Solomon

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

King Solomon

My point is that people are more likely to listen and be moved by someone that they think is trying to help them rather than prove them wrong. This has nothing to do with arrogance. It has everything to do with being human. No matter how wrong we might be about something, I'm sure all of us would prefer to be told in a nice way that we are wrong, and why. No-one likes to be spoken to like they are stupid. No-one likes to be talked down to. This applies to athiests, Christians, the non-religious - everyone.

While I don't disagree with you (I mean, how could I argue to defend anyone's being a jerk, LOL!), I'd like to believe that for some people, the ultimate criteria to be used is not the cosmetic superficialities, politeness, social skills, but in fact, THE TRUTH itself. It's like in picking a president, I don't want a down-to-earth candidate who I'd like to have a beer with: I want someone who gets the job done!

I know people who disregard anything that Richard Dawkins says, as they point out how pompous the guy is (the British accent doesn't help). But the fact is, I've known people who truly WERE brilliant, and knew they were: they had little tolerance for dim-wits who drained them of their energy, and didn't put up with it. So anyone who dismisses a Richard Dawkins MAY do so, but it's only to their own detriment: the guy has forgotten more about biology than they'll EVER hope to learn.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

King Solomon

If you don't believe in God, and there is a God, you will either never know you were wrong

OR

you will be resurrected with "the rest of the dead" for judgment, and you will be judged out of the scrolls according to your works/deeds/what you have done (Rev. 20:12-13--depending on the translation); not according to your beliefs.
So yes, the scripture agrees with the speaker, it will be fair.

I guess it matters if you're talking about if someone dies BEFORE Armageddon. Of course, you know that the JW doctrine is that anyone who is witnessed to, but fails to avail themselves of "The Truth" WILL be killed in Armageddon for an eternity, with no do-overs, no 2nd chances.

That's why I modified the Pascal's wager thinking into a scenario that's more applicable to JWs.

BTW, that reminds me of a question:

I remember the story saying was that EVERYONE who died before Armageddon would be resurrected to live 1,000 yrs in the New System, and then be judged. However, I saw a reference in some literature I looked at saying that you "must be remembered" by YHWH to be resurrected: is that a change in policy that is trying to close the loophole of dying before Armageddon so as to gate-crash into the New System?

Hey, wait a minute: where's Tammy? TEC?

There's Tammy's reference of those who will be misled by Satan to seek another way to take the "Kingdom by Force", using force to commit suicide to get in the New System? So per Jesus, don't be misled: it won't work!!!

15

Watchtower.org Is Down - Is it Anonymous?

by DT in

jw
friends

i've checked them on two different browsers.

jw.org is still up at the moment.

can anyone confirm?

King Solomon

It would be an indication that their God either doesn't exist or is very displeased with them.

I hope you're kidding, as the Jews were conquered and controlled by what, 8 foreign powers over 1,000 years (taken captive to Babylon, etc), and THEY didn't even get the clue then. It led to a skillful ability to just blame themselves ("what have WE done wrong for YHWH to abandon us like this?").

Just saying, the strength and impenetrability of their delusion is stronger than a silly little firewall.

Heck, even Al Qaeda's use of car bombs and IEDs doesn't sway people, but merely illicits a back-lash and strengthening of the victim's need for retaliation.

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

King Solomon

Winston,

I imagine that's because the Bible teaches believers that haughtiness and arrogance, esp that of men (with a puffed head) is such a sin, esp when making a declarative statement such as "there is no God". That's a DOUBLE sin to a Xian, and there's no way you're going to like that.

It means he triggered your "zone alarm" of your personal "virus scan" for unacceptable ideation; it's time to consider what if he IS right, and perhaps the greater arrogance is to condemn others as arrogant, when they're actually correct?

43

Newbie

by SophieG in

jw
friends

King Solomon

Welcome Sophie!

I tried to do that LOL!!! Told the clerk the meeting times She said it had to be his residence or place of work.

It's a shame you couldn't find out which territory where he'd be out in service, on that particular day: he'd knock on a door that the process server is standing behind (by arrangement with the homeowner), and the process server could serve your hubby while he's out in service (you gotta love the irony of the justice in that; the homeowner may just enjoy it as karmic payback for years of answering doorbells rung by JWs).

188

About Anonymous they are working on things as we speak!

by life is to short in

soldier 77 just posted this about two hours ago but i think his post got lost is the great debate and straw mans that another posters was throwing around.. anyway i hope soldier 77 does not mind if i make a thread from his insight.

soldier 77 "this seems to have missed in the tangent argument going on: http://pastebin.com/3nitctlf.

anonymous are needing some more people on the inside to help.

King Solomon

Let me guess what the admin password might be for the WT server?

"Watchtower"

Maybe they got clever, and mixed numbers and letters:

"WT4YHWH"

Am I getting warm yet? :)

24

Can You See How Idiotic The JW Religion Now Is?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was telling my gf about my mom's removal as a regular pioneer when she was about 80 years old because she went to my daughter's wedding (and she married a non-jw).. my girlfriend couldn't grasp the severity of my mother's sin and as i explained the witnesses' position, it all sounded so absurd!.

have you experienced anything similar?.

King Solomon

Ooops, posted this in the wrong thread: it belongs here (shunning):

JWs face a tough decision when it comes to whether or not to shun their own children who've been DFed.

If they DO shun, they make God "Very Happy" BUT they lose on having a relationship with their children, possibly for an eternity.

If they DON'T shun, they make God "Very Sad" and face a eternity in Hades, being conscious of nothing (think of it as a permanent time-out). But they don't lose a relationship with their children in the here and now.

Being that JWs don't believe in Hell, the decision is made a bit more difficult than for a Catholic , i.e. JWs don't expect to be punished to eternal torment for sinning (much less on account of siding with their own offspring)! Instead, JWs expected to be dead, killed in Armageddon, which is similar to death experienced by anyone on the Planet who dies today with no expectation of resurrection or reincarnation: there's no awareness, nada, nothing. You just don't exist.

HOWEVER, if they DO shun their children, they win an ETERNITY in paradise! Frolicking with friendly lions, engaging in satisfying physical labor, and above all: having good, clean family fun! Think of it like going to Epcot Center/Disneyworld, except living there for an ETERNITY!

You should be able to see that for a JW, the decision is heavily-biased in favor of REWARD, while the reduced penalty of PUNISHMENT (compared to say, a Catholic, who believes in Hell and eternal torment). That imbalance can induce some guilt in the parent (or, it SHOULD...).

Hence the JW's decision not to shun is similar to deciding to turn down a really great vacation to Epcot (for an eternity) in order to stay home with that family member, vs leaving the family member behind so YOU can go to Epcot (but you will never see them again). "See ya', wouldn't want to be ya'!!"

Now THERE'S a loverly message of conditional love that ANY parent should be sending to their children: "I love you, really, but if it means I have to forego MY eternity in paradise, then sorry, but you're on our own; it's every man for themselves..."

31

Pascal's Wager, Best Answer I Have Heard

by Diest in

jw
friends

many of us have heard of pascal's wager.

basically that you can bet on god and receive an infinite reward, or you can bet against him and live an easier life for 80 years.

this guy proves that the wager is really misstated.. .

King Solomon

JWs play their own version of Pascal's Wager, esp when it comes to whether or not to shun their own children who've been DFed.

If they DO shun, they make God "Very Happy" BUT they lose on having a relationship with their children, possibly for an eternity.

If they DON'T shun, they make God "Very Sad" and face a eternity in Hades, being conscious of nothing (think of it as a permanent time-out). But they don't lose a relationship with their children in the here and now.

Being that JWs don't believe in Hell, the decision is made a bit more difficult than for a Catholic , i.e. JWs don't expect to be punished to eternal torment for sinning (much less on account of siding with their own offspring)! Instead, JWs expected to be dead, killed in Armageddon, which is similar to death experienced by anyone on the Planet who dies today with no expectation of resurrection or reincarnation: there's no awareness, nada, nothing. You just don't exist.

HOWEVER, if they DO shun their children, they win an ETERNITY in paradise! Frolicking with friendly lions, engaging in satisfying physical labor, and above all: having good, clean family fun! Think of it like going to Epcot Center/Disneyworld, except living there for an ETERNITY!

You should be able to see that for a JW, the decision is heavily-biased in favor of REWARD, while the reduced penalty of PUNISHMENT (compared to say, a Catholic, who believes in Hell and eternal torment). That imbalance can induce some guilt in the parent (or, it SHOULD...).

Hence the JW's decision not to shun is similar to deciding to turn down a really great vacation to Epcot (for an eternity) in order to stay home with that family member, vs leaving the family member behind so YOU can go to Epcot (but you will never see them again). "See ya', wouldn't want to be ya'!!"

Now THERE'S a loverly message of conditional love that ANY parent should be sending to their children: "I love you, really, but if it means I have to forego MY eternity in paradise, then sorry, but you're on our own; it's every man for themselves..."

12

Aug 12 Awake: Students who cheat are like a fake brand-name

by Listener in

this comment was found in the august, 2012 awake.

students who cheat are like a fake brand-namewristwatch that only looks good.

this seems a rather odd thing to say considering jws should not be materialistic.. generally most fake brands are copying expensive designer brands otherwise they wouldn't bother making them.

King Solomon

This one kept me up last night:

Students who cheat are like a fake brand-name wrist-watch that only looks good

Cheating provides an artificially-induced short-term performance boost, whereas the improvement in the wrist-watch is cosmetic, only (i.e. no functional improvement in performance, but a degradation).

They could've gone with:

Students who cheat are like women who get boob jobs

Besides being slighty misleading (the implants are permanent), THAT would never fly past the GB.

Maybe:

Students who cheat are like athletes who use steroids

More accurate, but too edgy for the GB?

Hmmm, I feel the writer's pain, as his hands are kinda tied.....

Nevermind: I just saw the post above, where the writer paradoxically plagarized (plagarism IS cheating, last I checked) to make the point that it is evil to cheat.... No hypocrisy there, as WT coined the phrase, "do as we say, not as we do".

52

Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses is NOT the same as the doctrines leaving you

by Terry in

if you grow up speaking english and you move to mexico you don't automatically speak spanish, know customs, understand currency, possess skills.

for self-support or have any special insight into latino mindset.. .

why would you expect leaving jehovah's witnesses would leave you any less ill-equipped to navigate the real world?.

King Solomon

Iam, you awoke: that's a beautiful thing! Some never do...

I was fortunate in that my parents divorced before my mom got involved with the JWs. My Dad didnt really know much about the religion, and i think he figured it was that we had something to ground us. My sibs are still in, and I often think, "there but for the grace of God go I...."

I cannot imagine being born in, with both parents as JWs. My nephews were that, and home-schooled: they never stood a chance, the poor kids. The biggest challenge they face is the very fact that they've never faced any challenges, as they were home-schooled! I remember kids taunting me over tr flag salute, but learned to side-step and come right back at them (makes you tougher). But since they never had to deal with such challenges, they're handicapped emotionally, and trapped in the slow-lane of life...